Curse

Ensign · Jun 06, 2006, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

Since I probably couldn't have done a better job than the original poster I'll just repost it on these forums in its entirety

The original poster suggested introducing ridiculously overpowered uberloot, pretending that you can balance that with rarity, and tries to act like it's justified because you can't use them in PvP. Color me unimpressed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

In closing, I really think that part of the design flaw behind GW that is seriously hamstringing PvE is this whole idea that PvP has to be tied in very closely with the rest of the game.

The 'serious design flaw' is called item balance, coupled with the idea of accessability. It's that instead of having a couple of uber weapons that only a few people can possibly have, they introduce a variety of similarly powerful weapons, make them accessable, and let you choose between them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

Case in point, how many items you received as part of your drops actually end up equipped on your character rather than being sold to merchants as junk?

How can you pretend that, were this change implemented, that problem would become anything but worse? Making clear uberloot relegates even larger sections of the item base to the waste bin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lepton CFd

As stated in the post, there is only a limited number of combinations you can do with +30hp, sundering 20/20, etc.

Then add more modifiers that are on par with existing ones, increasing the variety of weapons available?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lepton CFd

it shouldn't be like that, there should be more variety, in both PvE AND PvP.

Then ask for a change that creates more variety. Asking for 'unique' uberloot that blows away everything people find now is the exact opposite of creating variety. If you point at WoW, you don't point at the variety of endgame weapons and armor, you point at the tier-2 epic sets that people grind for, and the 1-2 weapons that clearly outclass everything else.

That is what uberloot does to the game. It doesn't create variety, far from it. It introduces a massive item grind. If that's what you're looking for, at least be up front about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Bloodstone

If Reds are properly balanced then they won't become a requirement for high level gaming.

The entire point of this suggestion is that the items are unbalanced. That's why they're so big on putting the 'cannot be used in PvP' clause on them, to ward off balance discussion. The items as concieved are supposed to be patently unbalanced uberloot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Higher damage or statted weapons should never be factored in. Then those will become 'max', and in another chapter people will call for more buffs.

Well that's what people are asking for here. They're asking for the premise of the game to change, away from balance, and towards grinding for unbalanced ubergear. Of course they would need better gear with every release, otherwise the grind train would stop, and they can't have that.

It's not a ridiculous notion, but I could swallow it easier of people weren't being so outright retarded about it. If proponents of this weren't using 'uberlewt' and 'balance' in the same sentence I could take it more seriously.

Reword the suggestion as follows:

"We want you to make Guild Wars an item grind game, not an accessable game. We are not interested in balance, only uberloot. We want you to separate it from PvP in order to make that happen."

Peace,
-CxE

Stockholm · Jun 06, 2006, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chooby

I know you guys all love PvE, thats all good and well, heck I enjoy the occasional PvE on occasion.

But if you want to PvE, look at the title of the game your playing, its called "Guild wars" not PvE Grind Wars or Special PvE item Wars.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A guild is an association of people of the same trade or pursuits (with a similar skill or craft), formed to protect mutual interests and maintain standards of morality or conduct. Historically they were formed to benefit societies or small business associations, also referred to as a trade union of sorts, since each crafter was a self-employed individual artisan or part of a small craft shop or co-operative. They exist in modern and medieval incarnations. One's view of guilds tends to be heavily colored by one's view of political economy, since the whole history of trade, technology, intellectual property, regulated professions, social security, and professional ethics are entwined with the history of the guilds in Europe.

And your point being?

/signed

fallot · Jun 06, 2006, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

And your point being?

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A war is a conflict involving the organized use of weapons and physical force between states or other large-scale armed groups. The warring parties hold territory, which they can win or lose; and each has a leading person or organization which can surrender, or collapse, thus ending the war. Up until the end of World War II, the participants usually issued formal declarations of war.

The term is also used in constructs naming basically non-physical forms of conflict, but where the goal is the submission of one part by the other: trade war, psychological war, cold war.

The word war is sometimes used rhetorically to refer to a campaign against something, without territory to capture or an authority to defeat; e.g. the war on drugs, the war on terror.

Other terms for war, often used euphemistically, include armed conflict, hostilities, and police action (note). A time when no formal war is taking place, although there may be international and internal tensions, is called peacetime or peace.

Wars usually take the form of a series of military campaigns between two opposing sides involving a dispute over, amongst others issues, sovereignty, territory, resources, religion, ideology. A war to liberate an occupied country is called a "war of liberation"; a war between internal factions within a state is a civil war.

And you know what, my post has as much relevance to the topic as your does (i.e, none at all).

Omega X · Jun 06, 2006, 09:35 PM // 21:35

I like the idea of unique PvE weapons. But excluding PvP might not be possible.

Rather "Red Items" should have PURELY conditional bonuses and penalties.

-----------

For example, a sword that has spinning blades.

Spider Fang Sword
Req: 12 Swordsmanship
+5 Energy
Blades around the sword spin and strikes enemies adjacent to the foe being attacked. If <enter conditional statement here> will also strike the wielder for xx...xx Damage.

------------

EternalTempest · Jun 06, 2006, 09:55 PM // 21:55

/Not Signed

For the many reason's listed previously

Now making all the PvP items show up "red" (no changes in stats what so ever) in the inventory would be cool. That way if a pvp toon is used to store stuff, your red pvp items and your noraml items would stand out.

Nivryx · Jun 06, 2006, 09:55 PM // 21:55

/not signed

ust because your trying to pass that shiros sword with -50 hp...i know you just want it so you can forget 55'ing and start the new era of 5'ing -- shiros in one hand and grim ciesta in the other...

Stockholm · Jun 06, 2006, 10:50 PM // 22:50

fallot

the meaning of wars was never questiond, the meaning of "guild" was.
And the PvE part of the GW community need's something to do after finishing the storyline(plz do not say go and do PvP, some ppl don't like it) and if it means grinding for some nice "uber"weapons why not, as long as it does not alter the balance in PvP, we are grinding now for faction just to finish the game. GW need's to keep every player happy(pvp and pve) until the next chapter 4 1/2 months away. So come with some nice ideas insted of putting ppl down when they do. By the way, to me PvP is the real grind in this game.

Buoyancy · Jun 06, 2006, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

And the PvE part of the GW community need's something to do after finishing the storyline

No, they certainly don't need anything to do. GW is a good game because you can actually finish it, put it aside, and only pick it up again a few months later once something new is added.

M3lk0r · Jun 06, 2006, 11:21 PM // 23:21

/not signed in a 100 million years

Do you have ANY idea how this will ruin the game?

Please dont turn this into WoW-clone #8967273

ColaManiac · Jun 06, 2006, 11:45 PM // 23:45

if people realy want those red items, just make them have same old mods but improved... but only 1 mod!

something like this

1337 pimp sword
max dmg (req13 SM)
dmg +20%^50%
energy gain on hit 1/-1
hp +30

just some mods what came in my mind:
20^50
30v50
20 while in stance
15% / -7 armor
life steal 6/-2 or bow and hammer version 10/-2
energy gain 2/-2
30/30 sundering
hp+40
armor +7 vs all
45% longer poison, bleed, criple, weakness
enchantments last 25% longer
fire magic +1 (30% change)
dmg +1 and fire dmg
+8 energy

But still

/not signet

Joh · Jun 06, 2006, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chooby

I know you guys all love PvE, thats all good and well, heck I enjoy the occasional PvE on occasion.

But if you want to PvE, look at the title of the game your playing, its called "Guild wars" not PvE Grind Wars or Special PvE item Wars.

Ever heard of a so called "PvE Guild"? Who says guilds have to be entirely devoted PvP-players?

/signed

I don't think the Ele Gloves are too over-powered though, considering they've also got Energy Regen -1, but a little yeah. Maybe make it +1, and -1 regen? Or -2 regen?

pork soldier · Jun 06, 2006, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Bad Idea(tm) - if you want ZE UBZ0R gear go play lineage 2 or wow.

robrobrob · Jun 07, 2006, 01:33 AM // 01:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chooby

I know you guys all love PvE, thats all good and well, heck I enjoy the occasional PvE on occasion.

But if you want to PvE, look at the title of the game your playing, its called "Guild wars" not PvE Grind Wars or Special PvE item Wars.

It's also not called "Random Arena Wars" or "Heroes Ascent Wars" or "Alliance Wars", so let's get rid of those too. Please don't act stupid, go educate yourself on why the game is titled "Guild Wars."

led-zep · Jun 07, 2006, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chooby

I know you guys all love PvE, thats all good and well, heck I enjoy the occasional PvE on occasion.

But if you want to PvE, look at the title of the game your playing, its called "Guild wars" not PvE Grind Wars or Special PvE item Wars.

and you might like to read the lore book that comes with the game you are playing and see that the name guild wars has nothing to do with the pvp side either, there were guilds at war before any of our feet touched tyria.

so its not called guild wars pvp elitist t*sser either

Ggraphix · Jun 07, 2006, 02:19 AM // 02:19

/signed

your shiro sword sucks though
just like the rest of them

but this would bring the value for sup runes back up

pappayaponta · Jun 07, 2006, 05:35 AM // 05:35

Love th armors, we really need more things like the mesmer mask in GW, that is good, fun and interesting.

Just one question. How do you get the armor? Craft them? Where?

Otherwise, /SIGNED

Zaphod Hippybrox · Jun 07, 2006, 05:54 AM // 05:54

/signed

Not exactly how you put it, but something similar. I don't want more powerful weapons, but unique weapons. I want something that looks really cool that only my account can use. Perhaps a sword that looks like a Jedi Saber but acts like a normal sword.

PvErs do need something after they finish the game, and it might as well be this. Sure, it'll take some grinding, but the titles are grinding too and those seem to be the way they decided to make PvE more interesting.

I do not want to put the game aside for several months until the next update. I want to have fun with it now, and while I somewhat enjoy PvP, it just doesn't hold the same entertainment value to me.

Stabber · Jun 07, 2006, 07:20 AM // 07:20

PvE is already easy beyond reason. Even the so-called Elite Missions can be done in a half-asleep state once you get the hang of them (except the bosses, who are kind of interesting). Look how ridiculous a triple echo Celestial Stormer is in Raisu Palace or against Shiro.

I would only support giving players unbalancing odds if they make areas with large swarms of level 30 monsters the norm in chapter 3.

omny · Jun 07, 2006, 09:33 AM // 09:33

/Signed.

Though I don't think I want to see any of the items suggested by OP..
Might also be better of these "red" items could not be traded or dropped, but only usable by your own characters. But that's another story..

jackie · Jun 07, 2006, 09:58 AM // 09:58

/signed

more variation in items would be welcome aspect